Who Has Next??

Journalists Roland S. Martin and Jacque Reid got into a lively debate on Twitter last night. Jacque mentioned that she had been on 4 dates with a guy and each time he’d paid, until the 5th date when he asked her to pick up the tab. She declined to do so and didn’t go out with dude again. Her contention was that he was tacky for asking her to pay DURING the date, and he’d asked her out in the first place. She mentioned that she may have paid for a date with this dude…eventually. Roland Martin countered with that women could at least offer to pay sometimes or perhaps get the tip. He mentioned that women want to have it both ways, in terms of being independent but wanting men to be chivalrous as well. There was a lot of feedback from both Roland and Jacque’s followers on Twitter. The conversation got really interested and ultimately Roland decided to have a live Ustream chat about this very topic tonight on his website at 9 EST.

Let me say that I subscribe to the rule that whoever asks, should pay, regardless of gender. For Myron and I, since we became exclusive pretty quickly we sort of fell into a rhythm where he would pay sometimes and then I would sometimes, depending on the time of the month and what we were doing. There were a couple of uncomfortable discussions about dating expectations that came up but I think we handled it pretty well. 

So what are your thoughts? Should the guy always pay? At what point in a dating relationship does the lady pick up more of the financial slack?

Let me know your experiences in the comments.

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19 thoughts on “Who Has Next??

  1. Jacque’s date was tacky to ask that. If dude was tired of paying by the 5th date he needs to ask himself two things 1) If I’m tired of paying, am I tired of seeing this woman, period? 2) If I’m tired of dating by the 5th date, why didn’t I find something entertaining, yet low cost for us to do. if you’ve been out with someone 5 times, you like them enough to do something cheap. After the 2nd date, dude doesn’t need to impress as far as nice restaurants. Let’s do something else.

    Let’s assume they are in NYC. Plenty of stuff to do. Walk and get some ice cream like Barack and Michelle.
    Now, let’s say by the 5th date, there is a show I’m dying to see. I pay for the tickets, cool. Once I’ve decided I like you, I’ll pay if I’m making the date arrangements. I’m really into gender roles. So, I might not pay for dinner, but I can cook a good meal (not as good as Myron but I try!). And let’s not forget the hair, make up, and clothes to go out on the date. I’m not trying to get over or dig for gold. If I really like a guy I’d rather to do something frugal so he can afford to pay for us both, before I pay.

    I can respect a man saying Ruth Chris is not in my budget but because I want to see you, we can do the applebee’s 2 for $20 (just making a point here), my treat, because I don’t think a woman I’m dating should pay. Instead of him say, when are you gonna pay. If a guy did that to me, that would be his last date with me.

    I think some guys think that if they are dating it’s an opportunity for them to get a free meal when its their “turn” This is the vibe I get from Jacque’s date.

  2. Ok, I’m not with any steadfast rules, but my dating pattern would go something like this:
    …he’d ask me out (who asks a man out for the first date? a woman that thirsty SHOULD pay!)
    …he’d pay for the date, tip included
    …he’d ask me out again
    …he’d pay for the date, tip included
    …he’d ask me out again
    …he’d pay for the date, I might pay for the tip
    …one of us would suggest going out
    …if I felt like it, I’d pay. If not he’d pay

    I don’t think Roland was wrong, and if I were Jackie I would have just paid for the date. Big deal after date 5.

  3. I agree with you and your hubby’s rule EXACTLY. If you ask me, you’re responsible for paying. Not only because you are a man, but because YOU know YOUR pockets/pocketbook. Don’t ever ask me to pay during because that may not be in the budget, and with my current lifestyle as a full time student I can’t do “surprises”. Now I will say in Jackie’s situation by or around the 5th date is when I normally set something up on my own and I will take care of paying. I think the guy asking her to pay is a little silly but then again if this guy is Jackie’s age and he’s been single for a while, imagine how much money he has spent courting women. Maybe he is at the point that he is tired of continually shelling out $$$ and refuses to wait for a woman to offer. *shrug* If that is the case, I don’t blame him but there is a way to go about doing it.

    (I’ve been a new follower for a while now, but this is my first comment – I felt compelled!!! lol!)

  4. Interesting. In the early days, I’m not paying. Now, I may do other little thoughtful things, but when it comes to paying for the date, I’m not doing that. Once we’re dating (and that doesn’t necessarily mean exclusive, but just regularly spending time together) I have no problem paying for our fun.

    I generally think Jacque Reed is Cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs, as I have never gotten over her pushing her dog in a stroller and begging men for baby juice on that Pepa show. HOWEVER, in this situation I agree with her. I would have been put off, too, if dude waited until we were ON the date to ask me to pay for it. No mas.

  5. I think whoever asks should be prepared to pay, but I must admit that even if I asked a guy out, I’d be taken aback if he didn’t pick up the tab. It just hasn’t been my experience. I wouldn’t offer to make a man dinner and ask him to pick up groceries. Once we’re officially a couple I’ll treat for special occaisons – birthdays, professional accomplishments, etc. – but at that point I’m probably cooking a lot more meals at home too so…

  6. I guess I’m the odd woman out here. I’ve always offered to pay by the 3rd date. Even if the guy asked. My husband didn’t let me pay until… Hmmm I don’t remember. It was probably a time when we ate in and I picked up a meal. He pays most of the time when we’re out but there are times when I get the tab.

    I became very sympathetic to the financial woes of guys dating in my early 30s. We expect men to at least have what we have (job, house, car, good credit) but many of us (most in my circle) make (made) more than the guys we date. But we want to go to nice places. That’s why I offered to pay.

    I’m traditional but I guess it didn’t make sense (to me) to expect a guy to pay for all the meals when we both were getting something from the date. Additionally, I always felt the expectation to be treated in the woman’s mind was akin to the expectation for ‘repayment’ in the guy’s mind.

    • I tend to agree with this sentiment. I have offered by the 4th or 5th date usually. Because by then I have determined if there is at least a mutual interest. I also tried to be considerate of the man’s financial situation (based on what I could gage from his job, living situation, etc). I never wanted to create a situation where a guy feels like he has “invested” in me. I actually did have a little ” verbal tiff” with a guy that accused me of “using” him after he paid for 5 dates. I knew at the end of date 4 that I was no longer interested, but I didn’t want to cancel date 5 because it was a NYE party with his friends & he had asked me even before the 4th date. I was trying not to leave him “dateless” on NYE at the last minute. After that I learned to make coffee dates, meet at a park & get ice cream, or go have a drink for the first 3 dates to determine if there is real interest on my part. I weeded out some guys this way & kept them from feeling like I was gaming them for free meals, etc. I think the women in this forum are of a certain caliber but there are many women out here who are using guys for free meals & drinks that they really don’t have any interest in.

    • I’m with Taz on this one. 3rd date and I’m offering to pick up the tab.

      I honestly don’t care who pays, but on a recent date (someone I’d previously dated who asked me out again and I reluctantly agreed) I was faced with the situation where he asked me to pay the tip. I was slightly annoyed. Not because I couldn’t come out for the $15 tip, but because if you spend months convincing me to go out with you and can’t get the extra $15 I have to wonder about your level if interest. I later told him this, but in the moment I paid the tip. I didn’t want a free dinner, I just wanted to see that to him I was worth it.

      But as I said, after date 3 I’m offering to pay because 1) I don’t need anyone to buy my dinner and 2) if I’m still interested after date 3 chances are I’m pretty damn interested and want to be able to hold my own.

  7. I used to be all “whomever asks, pays”, but I just don’t anymore. I’ve experienced dating where the man always paid, and I definitely preferred it, and not just because it was lighter on my pockets. Men are socialized a certain way, so even if I meet one who loves my not-quite-traditional self, they still have traditional gender roles burned into their heads. As do I. If I’m paying, I’m more likely to act in ways traditionally reserved for men because $$$ = power, and he who pays the bills makes the rules.

    I dated a younger man who was a struggling undergrad through most of our courtship, and the money issue was always a problem. He didn’t feel comfortable with me paying, and I got tired of either picking up the bill or hearing him b!2ch and moan about being broke because he picked up the bill. That sealed it for me, because as “independent” as I am, I really didn’t like the dynamic that my paying introduced into our relationship. He and I may have been ok with a more egalitarian arrangement, but we do not live ina vacuum and the mores of society infiltrate even when it’s least expected.

    I don’ go by the number of dates when determining if I might pick up a tab or two. If we aren’t exclusive, I’m not paying. If I haven’t known you for a good long while, I’m not paying. If we don’t have a title? I’m definitely not paying. I may put together a semihomemade meal (only official booskis get fully homecooked ones) and bring it over your house (non SOs don’t get to come in mine). I might invite you to tons of events where the food is provided but doesn’t come out of my pocket.

  8. My rule of thumb has always been, whoever asked, pays. After the first few dates, you can tell if this is going to become a regular thing or you’re going into the friend zone, and at that point, the rule goes out the window & you have to find something that works for that couple.

    Jacque Reid strikes as a very traditional woman, so I can see her side of it. I would have been annoyed that my date asked me to pick up the check, but then again, by the 5th date, I would have paid or at least offered already.

  9. I think it’s odd that he asked her out and then asked her to pay.

    Smoochy and I started dating in college – once we were in an established relationship I paid sometimes. Not because he asked me to, but because I had more disposable income and I didn’t see the point in “making” him pay all the time.

  10. I would be taken aback if someone asked me to pay on a fifth date too. I would probably say no, just to see what happened.

    When dating, the only times I ever paid for dates was when I wanted to treat and I offered – usually on a birthday or job promotion celebration or something. Even now, my S/O always pays when we’re together – whether we’re in line at the grocery store or at dinner – and it’s all coming from the same pot.

    • In fact, now that I think about it, I HAVE had someone ask me to pay for a meal while we were dating. It wasn’t early on but he suggested it and I said, no. He wasn’t super-happy about it at the moment but I was trying to be honest about what I was willing to do. Anyway, he paid and we dated for a few more months before it fizzled out over something else…

  11. Our money-income is joint (except my non marital money that will be used as a house down payment) but my husband still pays. I usually leave my wallet. He drives and he pays.

    My husband (born and raised in L.A.) always pays for ladies and even women who don’t behave like ladies. He opens doors, pulls out chairs, holds umbrellas, carries groceries, and all that chivalrous stuff.

    My 3 year old daughter rarely sees me pay for anything and often asks me if her daddy bought her certain things. I hope any man who thinks she should pull out her wallet on a date will eliminate himself from her dating pool. My husband says he intentionally pays for everything so the kids will learn that men pay.

  12. I’m in a newish relationship, but it is beyond dating at this point. Sometimes he pays and sometimes I pay. Mostly he buys the big ticket items and I pay for smaller things like coffee, or movies.

  13. When we dated, Michael always paid. It went without saying. That’s just who he is as a man. He’s a door-opening, picking up things that look too heavy, pulling a chair out Southern Gentleman. If I wanted to treat him, I cooked for him. Or if I were shopping, I’d buy him a “just because” gift. But paying on a date just didn’t happen. If I were dating now, I’d really be taken aback if a man ASKED me to pick up the check. I’d pay my portion and never see him again.

  14. If dude asked then he should pay. Is this date 5 in a 3 or 4 week period? He’s still courting her, asking for her to pay is a bit uncouth in my opinion. Nothing wrong with her offering to pay or even for her to foot the bill for an activity they have planned.

    By date 5 I’d hope we’ve gone beyond the dinner dates and have started to do activities, museums, movies etc. I’d probably have picked up the tab for some of the activities but not dinner.

  15. i’m being a smart aleck – my husband always pays, unless i say i’m paying – it doesnt matter since its coming from the same source. 🙂
    i really don’t know – been married for too long; but i think if the guy asks he should pay.

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